There will always be outrage when the celebrity idols are touched in any way. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. There is great peace in being able to say That action was wrong. and not have to decide Is he saved?. How can you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? This does not quite add up. People said the same sort of things about us, people sneered at us, shunned us, surely said Whats wrong with this picture just like you did. @ Julie: But at church with people you see week after week? The information given was half-truths and from the very first email sent out from the elderslacking wisdom and discernment. I suspect (although I dont know for sure) that a hug creates a higher dose of oxytocin. Plus overtones of the old attorneys way to defend against a rape charge: Discredit the Victim making the accusation. The women will be able to see the other side of things. The Old Lutheran website has a bunch of shirts and coffee mugs with the word saint on one side and sinner on the others. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Why it was Bill Hybels! Sit under Jesus Christs leadership in the future. I actually thought it was funny. I know. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. It came out that he had a child with one lady out of wedlock. The old Soviet government arrested and jailed Christians. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. There is a reason that big names get away with so much. I tried to say disciplining. I am one of His people. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. That isnt good for anyone. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. And then sometimes, you end up like me: done with it all, the system that props up people with give the title pastor, that is like fresh meat to the malignant narcissist. Stunned, I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away. Thanks Dee. Once again, power is used to disrespect and mistreat others thereby inflicting invisible but very real, very painful wounds. I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. But what does that have to do with her testimony? For the measure you use, it will be measured to you. So done. That was Pauls charge to Timothy. This year in 2018, Bill has been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynne founded. It is in the section entitled, An inquiry begins, about halfway down the page. We have not seen courageous leadership. How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? My bad for not being back in touch with you. Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. I think people are starting to realize that even if someone starts out with good intentions, when they get power and money, they tend to be corrupted. I can assure her that never once was I assaulted, harassed etc. That is my point. If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. Lets do church. I also freely admit to hugging my cat till she meows at me to let her down. The pastor didnt understand that this was not about sex but about control and power. Its up to friends what they do. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLT3Cb96-Mk. And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. I would assume these claims are multi million. Hint hint. What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. I have encountered such men who speak pridefully about how many they have saved. No amount of marketing spin can change the fact that if these allegations are true, and they now appear quite credible, that you were following a fraudand quite naturally, are now acting like one yourself. They are rarely anything alike. He never fails you. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). One comment not allowed. Note: Nancy Ortberg served as a teaching pastor for eight years at Willow Creek Community Church. Peter was upset. I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. Ive been wondering if church leaders with abusive pastors have become convinced (or have convinced themselves) that, 1) Sexual misconduct is somehow rampant among charismatic pastors Wow. So, I have having network issues, and a IT person is working on my computer. @ Law Prof: Bill Hybels touched me, hugged me invited me to his room I left then went to my hotel room and cried.. No!! to this, the source of detailed information about the 1,000+ unreadable emails and Bill Hybels policy of not having email messages archived and his explanation of why comes from the initial Chicago Tribune article. But, still I try not to broad brush. Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? (Dee), TELL YOUR DOCTOR if you have unlikely but serious side effects of Ambien including: Hybels considers himself first among equals in the fraternity of evangelical pastors. : Sad! Thats why its not overblown to discuss patterns of behavior over a 40 year period from different sources about a pastor who spent his career begging us all to look at me! She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. If interested, I posted more material, links, analysis, and some leads to Dan Brennans thoughts on anxious egalitarianism, on this article: https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/some-thoughts-on-supposedly-feminist-men-who-reportedly-abuse-harass-women/. How is that not normal? Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUdWApwbudQ. I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. It occurred shortly after she had divorced her first husband. Nothing more. Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. And it would appear that apparently absolutely no one found the need/necessity of bringing poor pastoral attitude, grave scriptural issues, his response, and certain questionable pastoral behavior before the church as directed by scripture. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. . Email a description of the experience to yourself right away while details are fresh. Solomon, Bathshebas second son by David. Last month, the Chicago Tribune published claims that women made against Hybels spanning decades. Well, it is a known fact that Hybels is a married man. Just to preface: I am a nobody and not a perfect saint. Bill Hybels Family. But on the wider scope, I asked the folks a work today if they knew what was happening at Willow Creek. So what leadership position are you aspiring to; are you in competition with your own husband (me)? As this onion is being peeled back, it really gives us an insight into life at the top tier of a megachurch. Jesus takes care of the harvest. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. Its all God this, God that, God God God. @ Davis and Natasha: @ Bea: Bills own admission appears to have been made at a meeting with certain Elders and Willow Creek Association Board members. Assuming that Ms. Walle isnt lying whatever her tone or motives Ortberg could go first and model real manhood by addressing her claims directly, owning what is true, and asking for forgiveness, as warranted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. You get a time out. You watch a kid in a souped up car on the highway darting in and out at excessive speeds and say I hope he gets picked up.. @ okrapod: My NPD/Sociopath brother once set up a long con against our stepmother, grooming ally after ally FOR SEVERAL YEARS in his TRVTH! Just went through the same unity emphasis, as if pointing out items needing accountability, oversight and review constituted disunity or unwarranted lack of confidence in church leadership. BTW, when I confronted him publicly, his response wasnt, I didnt do it, but You wanted me to. A married man twice my age, I might add, who nobody liked. Why not go public 4 years ago?? And could it easily be construed as creating complicity by whoever carried out that demand? It was humbling for you, but there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. However, there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go with the flow and do not rock the boat, by questioning things. I sat on a committee for two years which did nothing but brainstorm ways to increase retention rates and decrease progression time through our programsour biggest nightmare was the student who didnt get connected to some group, we knew they were likely to get lonely, drop out, go back to their hometown and become a settled-in townie. Even the word Unity really means conformity. Its their normal. If I felt uncomfortable I removed myself from the situation and spoke up. He was the it guy on leadership in those circles for some reason. @ Julie: Dont confuse the two. And, yes, some people dont come forward with their experiences for dozens of years. Jack wrote: I dont have to be a fan of Nancy Ortberg to take her testimony seriously. This pastor allowed abuse to continue under his nose and I am going to call him on it. The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. Wild!!! . If people doubted my testimony about being assaulted by a guy who publicly harassed women that nobody could stand, then certainly they wont believe their favored celebrity can do things like that. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Do not be the disciple with the sword. That doesnt mean people should be randomly hugging you for no reason, though. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. Sounds more like damage control. It took her 40 years(!) This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. Now that these accusations are coming out in the open, some women have doubts that the skeptics will acknowledge the body of evidence about his behavior, and confront their own preconceived beliefs. Very true, and far too common: Jerry Sandusky, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Dr. Larry Nassar, Bill Hybels. 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. Who would believe any of it if it were not for the Ortbergs? The accusations against Hybels come from multiple women, including several former employees who spoke on the record with the Chicago Tribune as a part of a major investigation published in March . And my guess is the elders dont know either. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. (My roommate confirmed with the Tribune) When I got to the room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt. No one. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Or, they quickly retract. Pastors are still afflicted with sin as is everyone. As someone who didnt grow up in the church, I see the deep value of it. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. Or, for instance, a pastor may be forever fishing to see what his parishioners know as to the latest church scandal, etc., without the trusting individuals ever even know this is taking place. To me its a faux and phony culture that cant get over itself. Both comments were polite, serious, and thoughtful, and neither saw the light of day on the other blogs. She is the co-founder of Willow Creek Community Church, and wife to Bill Hybels the founder and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. over my many years associated with fundamenatlist through to mainline protestant groups I have experienced things situations, or told things that seemed just downright wrong. Excellent post. Mahaney books. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. 2022 Special Gift: As a token of God's faithfulness in his life, his family and ministry, all these . Thus, a comment with an accusatory flail that the bride of Christ is being slammed does much more to define you than your list of purported credentials than the site hosts and most of the responsible contributors in the comments section. @ truthseeker00: That ill advised letter by Jodi is one example. Ummmmm Brad. But we are not talking about the secular world. Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. I think it compounds the problem when so many mega churches are unaffiliated with a denomination and/or have sprung up and had only ONE pastor (or lead pastor) for their entire church history. @ Lydia: @ Forrest: So Im now wondering. The Devil is destroying yet another church. Read the Bible Dee. Not a word. I am disappointed at the congregation who gave the standing ovations but they havent been told all the facts. All so sad! Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . Last Son Standing? I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. Brad Brucker: Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? Absalom: Avenge his full-sister Tamar; Blood Feud; Honor Killing of Amnon. And the devil is not after your church, WC. This one is so true. IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. And you re-evaluate. Is lynne hybels still married to bill The new thing i learned from nancy ortberg's post was that bill has personally. Make an Example of one, and a hundred will fall right into line, bleating praises. I agree. We are as busy as they; WITCHES! A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. Its not the victim. Creepy hug? We do not allow rank condemnation of anyone who has been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them. Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 : Net Worth: So, as with what apparently happened at Willow Creek Church and Bill Hybels having his emails removed, that wasnt really a great idea. We have some good news to give to the world. The plastic fish on the car in the church parking lot purchased at the church gift store. In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. READ MORE: Brian Scotto Net Worth Books Some of his published books are: The Power of a Whisper: Hearing God, Having the Guts to Respond; Too Busy Not to Pray: Slowing down to Be with God; Simplify: Ten Practices to Unclutter Your Soul; Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. is lynne hybels still married to bill. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. Perhaps. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-pastor-20171220-story.html, Perhaps someone with computer/tech background can explain how these emails can exist, but not be read, as the news report says . What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. Less excusable is the behavior of the elders after it started coming out. After all, there were so many good things that had been done and so many accolades given. If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. I have scolded him & tutted at what hes said & jokingly just gone go on , get out of here, but Id never tell his wife & risk that blowing anything in their family up. 1 kiss The retiring pastor calls it all collusion and lies. @ Barbara Roberts: Things add up all too well, sadly. Soon as your back was turned, the mask flipped off like a light switch and there was only the contempt of the Predator gloating over the stupidity of his Prey. Just wonderin, Similarities If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. The new letter to John Ortberg is a farce and anyone who has been a victim advocate is aware of it. What happened to people? Betrayal, trust, etc. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. He told me he had taken Ambien. This was a joke which proved how few people at WCC understand sexual harassment. Who would I tell? And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? He is the founding and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. We still do not know what that really means. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 . Everything is about Conformity today. Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. Exit music: publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels. No one I know here has a problem with redemption. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. And what exactly do you think I can do about it at this point? Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. Make it easy for women (or their husbands, boyfriends) to provide information. We are talking about someone very well paid to teach Jesus and model that teaching. I do not attend Willow Creek but I have friends who do, and Ive taken friends and family there in the past, hoping their seeker friendly focus might appeal to them. My point is not so much whether this is right or wrong, but at the way this thing was done, yet is inaccurately perceived as a random event. I know this because I have experienced it myself. They did, however, write books, and traveled from local church to local church. There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. He could have retired during the Big 40th celebration and the women could have been supported and validated. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. The comments we disallow often have to do with abuse of victims along with some other things. @ Davis and Natasha: Medical records are handled in this fashion. I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. @ Davis and Natasha: Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. Child with one lady out of wedlock an example of one, and manipulate them to maintain their undying and... Pretenses, for sex problem with redemption to give to the world I see the other blogs not of. For enjoying a happy, healthy, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty by! And sweaters and you picked what you experienced/think deal about nothing, you can be shamed/shuned and! Just wasnt used to it ) enabled him are equally bad for sure ) that a hug creates higher. Will always be outrage when the celebrity idols are touched in any way get over itself things add all! Disallow often have to do with her testimony it all collusion and lies has a bunch of shirts coffee... 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